Interview With General N.B. Forrest
Below is an excerpt from " INTERVIEW WITH GENERAL N.B. FORREST
Printed in the Cincinnati Commercial, August 28, 1868. The excerpt,
and the whole file I sent you, comes from the book, ""Invisible
Empire"""The Story of the KuKluxKlan 1866-1871"" written
by Stanley F. Horn in 1939 from The Riverside Press. The interviewer
is not identified by name. I present this to you as a possible primary
source of the quote Forrest is famous for which I underlined. I
send this as an example of the whole context from which the quote
is taken. The file I send is the whole interview.In your newsletter of today, Michael Kelly again sites another famous(?)
quote attributed to w.t.sherman, which says "We are here to
investigate Forrest, charge Forrest, try Forrest, convict Forrest
and hang Forrest."In not adhering to his own admonitions
in the past, he has not cited his source for this quote. I have
written to him for a reference more than once and he has yet to
respond. It is not my practice to publicly ask people for information.
I much prefer to do so privately, off lists. So, I ask Michael
Kelly to please cite his source for the quote in question. Preferably
with an internet source, such as the Library of Congress or some
other official source website. This is far easier to access and
cite, than buying books. In the book that I cite as my source,
of the several references to sherman, there is no such quote.
Also, I have tried searching the internet for the source with
no success. I would love to be able to use the quote myself, but
I can not without a suitable reference source. So, will you accomodate
me?At Your Service,
I Remain Respectfully,
Jimmy L. Shirley Jr.‘What do you think of negro suffrage?’
‘I am opposed to it under any and all circumstances, and in our
convention urged our party not to commit themselves at all upon
the subject. If the negroes vote to enfranchise us, I do not think
I would favor their disfranchisement. We will stand by those who
help us. And here I want you to understand distinctly I am not
an enemy to the negro. We want him here among us; he is the only
laboring class we have; and, more than that, I would sooner trust
him than the white scalawag or carpetbagger. When I entered the
army I took forty-seven negroes into the army with me, and forty-
five of them were surrendered with me. I said to them at the start:
"This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be
made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me and be good
boys, I will set you free; in either case you will be free."
These boys stayed with me, drove my teams, and better confederates
did not live.’‘Do you think the Ku Klux will try to intimidate the negroes
at the election?’‘I do not think they will. Why, I made a speech at Brownsville
the other day, and while there a lieutenant who served with me
came to me and informed me that a band of radicals had been going
through the country claiming to be Ku Klux, and disarming the
negroes, and then selling their arms. I told him to have the matter
investigated, and, if true, to have the parties arrested.’APPENDIX III
INTERVIEW WITH GENERAL N.B. FORREST
Printed in the Cincinnati Commercial, August 28, 1868, with his
replyIn August, 1868, a mild sensation was created by the publication
in the Cincinnati Commercial of a news-letter from its traveling
correspondent who was then in Memphis, and who reported an interview
with General Nathan Bedford Forrest on the subject of the Ku KIlL"
Klan, then a subject of absorbing interest throughout the entire
country. This news article was as follows:Memphis, Tenn., August 28, 1868.
To-day I have enjoyed ‘big talks’ enough to have gratified any
of the famous Indian chiefs who have been treating with General
Sherman for the past two years. First I met General N. B. Forrest,
then General Gideon A. Pillow, and Governor Isham G. Harris. My
first visit was to General Forrest, whom I found at his office,
at 8 o’clock this morning, hard at work, although complaining
of an illness contracted at the New York convention. The New Yorkers
must be a bad set indeed, for I have not met a single delegate
from the Southern States who has not been ill ever since he went
there. But to General Forrest. Now that the southern people have
elevated him to the position of their great leader and oracle,
it may not be amiss to preface my conversation with him with a
brief sketch of the gentleman.I cannot better personally describe him than by borrowing the
language of one of his biographers. ‘In person he is six feet
one inch and a half in height, with broad shoulders, a full chest,
and symmetrical, muscular limbs; erect in carriage, and weighs
one hundred and eighty five pounds; dark-gray eyes, dark hair,
mustache and beard worn upon the chin; a set of regular white
teeth, and clearly cut features’; which, altogether, make him
rather a handsome man for one forty-seven years of age.Previous to the war – in 1852 – he left the business of planter,
and came to this city and engaged in the business of ‘negro trader,’
in which traffic he seems to have been quite successful, for,
by 1861, he had become the owner of two plantations a few miles
below here, in Mississippi, on which he produced about a thousand
bales of cotton each year, in the meantime carrying on the negro-trading.
In June, 1861, he was authorized by Governor Harris to recruit
a regiment of cavalry for the war, which he did, and which was
the nucleus around which he gathered the army which he commanded
as lieutenant general at the end of the war.After being seated in his office, I said:
‘General Forrest, I came especially to learn your views in regard
to the condition of your civil and political affairs in the State
of Tennessee, and the South generally. I desire them for publication
in the Cincinnati Commercial. I do not wish to misinterpret you
in the slightest degree, and therefore only ask for such views
as you are willing 1 should publish.’‘I have not now,’ he replied, ‘and never have had, any opinion
on any public or political subject which I would object to having
published. I mean what I say, honestly and earnestly, and only
object to being misrepresented. I dislike to be placed before
the country in a false position, especially as I have not sought
the reputation I have gained.’I replied: ‘Sir, I will publish only what you say, and then you
can not possibly be misrepresented. Our people desire to know
your feelings toward the General Government, the State government
of Tennessee, the radical party, both in and out of the State,
and upon the question of negro suffrage.’‘Well, sir,’ said he, ‘when I surrendered my seven thousand men
in 1865, I accepted a parole honestly, and I have observed it
faithfully up to to-day. I have counseled peace in all the speeches
I have made. I have advised my people to submit to the laws of
the State, oppressive as they are, and unconstitutional as I believe
them to be. I was paroled and not pardoned until the issuance
of the last proclamation of general amnesty; and, therefore, did
not think it prudent for me to take any active part until the
oppression of my people became so great that they could not endure
it, and then I would be with them. My friends thought differently,
and sent me to New York, and I am glad I went there.’‘Then, I suppose, general, that you think the oppression has
become so great that your people should no longer bear it.’‘No,’ he answered, ‘It is growing worse hourly, yet I have said
to the people "Stand fast, let us try to right the wrong
by legislation." A few weeks ago I was called to Nashville
to counsel with other gentlemen who had been prominently identified
with the cause of the confederacy, and we then offered pledges
which we thought would be satisfactory to Mr. Brownlow and his
legislature, and we told them that, if they would not callout
the militia, we would agree to preserve order and see that the
laws were enforced. The legislative committee certainly led me
to believe that our proposition would be accepted and no militia
organized. Believing this, I came home, and advised all of my
people to remain peaceful, and to offer no resistance to any reasonable
law, It is true that I never have recognized the present government
in Tennessee as having any legal existence, yet I was willing
to submit to it for a time, with the hope that the wrongs might
be righted peaceably,’‘What are your feelings towards the Federal Government, general?’
‘I loved the old Government in 1861; I love the Constitution yet.I think it is the best government in the world if administered
as it was before the war. I do not hate it; I am opposing now
only the radical revolutionists who are trying to destroy it.
I believe that party to be composed, as I know it is in Tennessee,
of the worst men on God’s earth – men who would hesitate at no
crime, and who have only one object in view, to enrich themselves,’‘In the event of Governor Brownlow’s calling out the militia,
do you think there will be any resistance offered to their acts?’
I asked.‘That will depend upon circumstances. If the militia are simply
called out, and do not interfere with or molest anyone, I do not
think there will be any fight. If, on the contrary, they do what
I believe they will do, commit outrages, or even one outrage,
upon the people, they and Mr. Brownlow’s government will be swept
out of existence; not a radical will be left alive. If the militia
are called out, we can not but look upon it as a declaration of
war, because Mr. Brownlow has already issued his proclamation
directing them to shoot down the Ku Klux wherever they find them;
and he calls all southern men Ku Klux.’‘Why, general, we people up north have regarded the Ku Klux as
an organization which existed only in the frightened imaginations
of a few politicians.’‘Well, sir, there is such an organization, not only in Tennessee
but allover the South, and its numbers have not been exaggerated.’‘What are its numbers, general?’ ‘In Tennessee there are over
forty thousand; in all the Southern States about five hundred
and fifty thousand men.’‘What is the character of the organization, may I inquire?’ ‘Yes,
sir. It is a protective, political, military organization. I am
willing to show any man the constitution of the society. The members
are sworn to recognize the Government of the United States. It
does not say anything at all about the government of the State
of Tennessee. Its objects originally were protection against Loyal
Leagues and the Grand Army of the Republic; but after it became
general it was found that political matters and interests could
best be promoted within it, and it was then made a political organization,
giving its support, of course, to the democratic party.’‘But is the organization connected throughout the State?’
‘Yes, it is. In each voting precinct there is a captain, who,
in addition to his other duties, is required to make out a list
of names of men in his precinct, giving all the radicals and all
the democrats who are positively known, and showing also the doubtful
on both sides and of both colors. This list of names is forwarded
to the grand commander of the State, who is thus enabled to know
who are our friends and who are not.’‘Can you, or are you at liberty to, give me the name of the commanding
officer of this state?’‘No; it would be impolitic.’
‘Then I suppose there would be no doubt of a conflict if the
militia interfere with the people; is that your view?’‘Yes, sir; if they attempt to carry out Governor Brownlow’s proclamation
by shooting down Ku Klux – for he calls all southern men Ku Klux
– if they go to hunting down and shooting these men, there will
be war, and a bloodier one than we have ever witnessed. I have
told these radicals here what they might expect in such an event.
I have no powder to burn killing negroes. I intend to kill the
radicals. I have told them this and more. There is not a radical
leader in this town but is a marked man; and if a trouble should
break out, not one of them would be left alive. I have told them
that they were trying to create a disturbance and then slip out
and leave the consequences to fall upon the negro; but they can’t
do it. Their houses are picketed, and when the fight comes not
one of them would ever get out of this town alive. We don’t intend
they shall ever get out of the country. But I want it distinctly
understood that I am opposed to any war, and will only fight in
self-defense. If the militia attack us, we will resist to the
last; and, if necessary, I think I could raise 40,000 men in five
days, ready for the field.’‘Do you think, general, that the Ku Klux have been of any benefit
to the State?’‘No doubt of it. Since its organization the leagues have quit
killing and murdering our people. There were some foolish young
men who put masks on their faces and rode over the country frightening
negroes; but orders have been issued to stop that, and it has
ceased. You may say further that three members of the Ku Klux
have been court-martialed and shot for violations of the orders
not to disturb or molest people.’‘Are you a member of the Ku Klux, general?’
‘I am not; but am in sympathy and will cooperate with them. I
know they are charged with many crimes they are not guilty of:
A case in point is the killing of Bierfield at Franklin, a few
days ago. I sent a man up there especially to investigate the
case, and report to me, and I have his letter here now, in which
he states that they had nothing to do with it as an organization.’‘What do you think of negro suffrage?’
‘I am opposed to it under any and all circumstances, and in our
convention urged our party not to commit themselves at all upon
the subject. If the negroes vote to enfranchise us, I do not think
I would favor their disfranchisement. We will stand by those who
help us. And here I want you to understand distinctly I am not
an enemy to the negro. We want him here among us; he is the only
laboring class we have; and, more than that, I would sooner trust
him than the white scalawag or carpetbagger. When I entered the
army I took forty-seven negroes into the army with me, and forty-
five of them were surrendered with me. I said to them at the start:
"This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be
made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me and be good
boys, I will set you free; in either case you will be free."
These boys stayed with me, drove my teams, and better confederates
did not live.’‘Do you think the Ku Klux will try to intimidate the negroes
at the election?’‘I do not think they will. Why, I made a speech at Brownsville
the other day, and while there a lieutenant who served with me
came to me and informed me that a band of radicals had been going
through the country claiming to be Ku Klux, and disarming the
negroes, and then selling their arms. I told him to have the matter
investigated, and, if true, to have the parties arrested.’‘What do you think is the effect of the amnesty granted to your
people?’‘I believe that the amnesty restored all the rights to the people,
full and complete. I do not think the Federal Government has the
right to disfranchise any man, but I believe that the legislatures
of the States have. The objection I have to the disfranchisement
in Tennessee is, that the legislature, which enacted the law,
had no constitutional existence, and the law in itself is a nullity.
Still I would respect it until changed by law. But there is a
limit beyond which men can not be driven, and I am ready to die
sooner than sacrifice my honor. This thing must have an end, and
it is now about time for that end to come.’‘What do you think of General Grant?’ I asked.
‘I regard him as a great military commander, a good man, honest
and liberal, and if elected will, I hope and believe, execute
the laws honestly and faithfully. And by the way, a report has
been published in some of the newspapers, stating that while General
Grant and lady were at Corinth, in 1862, they took and carried
off furniture and other property. I here brand the author as a
liar. I was at Corinth only a short time ago, and I personally
investigated the whole matter, talked with the people with whom
he and his lady lived while there, and they say that their conduct
was everything that could be expected of a gentleman and lady,
and deserving the highest praise. I am opposed to General Grant
in everything, but I would do him justice.’The foregoing is the principal part of my conversation with the
general. I give the conversation, and leave the reader to form
his own opinion as to what General Forrest means to do. I think
he has been so plain in his talk that it can not be misunderstood.As soon as General Forrest read this account of the interview
with him, he addressed the following letter to the correspondent
who wrote it:Memphis, September 3, 1868.
Dear Sir:
I have just read your letter in the Commercial, giving a report
of our conversation on Friday last. I do not think you would intentionally
misrepresent me, but you have done so and, I suppose, because
you mistook my meaning. The portions of your letter to which I
object are corrected in the following paragraphs:I promise the legislature my personal influence and aid in maintaining
order and enforcing the laws. I have never advised the people
to resist any law, but to submit to the laws, until they can be
corrected by lawful legislation.I said the militia bill would occasion no trouble, unless they
violated the law by carrying out the governor’s proclamation,
which I believe to be unconstitutional and in violence of law,
in shooting men down without trial, as recommended by that proclamation.I said it was reported, and I believed the report, that there
are forty thousand Ku Klux in Tennessee; and I believe the organization
stronger in other states. I meant to imply, when I said that the
Ku Klux recognize the Federal Government, that they would obey
all State laws. They recognize all laws, and will obey them, so
I have been informed, in protecting peaceable citizens from oppression
from any quarter.I did not say that any man’s house was picketed. I did not mean
to convey the idea that I would raise any troops; and, more than
that, no man could do it in five days, even if they were organized.I said that General Grant was at Holly Springs, and not at Corinth;
I said the charge against him was false, but did not use the word
‘liar.’I can not consent to remain silent in this matter; for, if I
did so, under an incorrect impression of my personal views, I
might be looked upon as one desiring a conflict, when, in truth,
I am so averse to anything of the kind that I will make any honorable
sacrifice to avoid it.Hoping that I may have this explanation placed before your readers,
I remain, very respectfully,N. B. FORREST
On The Web:
http://shnv.homestead.com/files/FORREST.htm
